Posts by Juan Viejo2

7

attended a jw memorial talk yesterday

by man in black in

after being da'd for two years, i felt it was my duty to attend the memorial talk for an elderly brother who i greatly respected over the years.. i was quite nervous going back to the kh and seeing everyone.. well, my wife and i walked in, and most of the elders we saw just looked away, or acted like we were invisible.

several of our old friends winked, smiled, or waved secretly.

the hall was full, and this elder named jeff renfroe placed us in the 2nd row from the front.

Juan Viejo2

This is one of the major points made by a current elder who wrote an article for www.Ex-JW.com. http://ex-jw.com/elder-shares-honest-opinions

I have attended three memorials this year for two elderly members of my family and one young man in his early 20s. None of these family members were Jehovah's Witnesses. Each one was a non-religious memorial, but had some Christian ethic overtones and commentary. The prayers were non-denominational and intended to be supportive to the family. Each funeral allowed family members and friends of the deceased to come forward and offer their comments and to share stories about the deceased. Each funeral had a video slideshow that showed the life events and growth of the deceased.

When leaving those kinds of memorials everyone feels that they have had a chance to learn more about the person who passed. Everything is upbeat and positive. It is a chance to share hugs and stories. Yes, there are tears shed, but they are simply natural responses that we all feel for the family and the fact that the deceased will never again be a part of our lives - only memories.

Jehovah's Witness funerals are boring. Any mention of the deceased is very limited - usually less than five minutes total. Very little is shared about his or her life, their families, their accomplishments, or what everyone in the room remembers about them. If anything is to be shared in the way of stories or other commentary about the deceased, it must be held until after everyone leaves the Kingdom Hall and maybe goes to a reception in a private home or restaurant. Once out of the Kingdom Hall or mortuary sanctuary, family members can do other things to celebrate the life of the deceased - but even that may be limited. It is very easy for the elders to find fault with the family members who do too much - criticizing them for "glorifying a person over Jehovah."

I know of at least one case where friends and family members simply took over the funeral at a Kingdom Hall. It caused a near riot when the elders tried to stop them. I did not get all the details, but I do know that one of the family members was mentioned after a service meeting as being "on probation" and unable to enjoy any special responsibilities.

If a family of Jehovah's Witnesses wishes to have both a JW funeral and an open memorial, then they should avoid having the funeral at a Kingdom Hall. Have the memorial at a community center. Invite one of the brothers - or a family member who is a JW - to give the official JW talk. Then after the official funeral is over, let a family member take over the memorial and run the rest of it as the family wishes. There may be some gossip and a lot of elder criticism afterwards, but screw them.

Also consider not having a JW funeral. Have a non-sectarian funeral for the deceased. Let the family and friends, both JWs and non-Witnesses attend if they wish. If the JWs have a problem with that, screw them too. They are not really friends of your family if they take that approach.

JW funerals have been a pain in my butt since I was a kid. All of my deceased family members have had JW funerals and they have all been exactly the same - boring, boring, boring! I leave them crying - not out of grief for the deceased, but rather for the way their memory was just ignored and minimized as unimportant.

JV

86

Do You Folks Wanna Hear My Story?

by Farkel in

jw
friends

i've already written "my story".

i've been "out" for 35 years.

but that is not a story that contains the little stuff.

Juan Viejo2

I am from that same generation and time period, Farkel. I'd love to hear your stories and compare them with my own experiences.

What is interesting about that period of the 1950-60s is that there was such a disconnect between the actions of some JW families and others.

For example, Richard Kelly ("Growing Up in Mama's Club") was a good boyhood friend of mine. His parents were ham fisted in their approach to raising him and his siblings, refusing to let him participate in school sports, Little League, and other outside activities. My parents, on the other hand, were very liberal in that regard and encouraged us to play with neighborhood friends, get involved in team sports like Little League.

There were no hard and fast rules about outside activities in those days. It seemed to be determined by how strict the parents were and whether they chose to use the WT guidelines as an excuse for refusing to support their kids activities.

In the 1970s things really began to tighten up as far as school activities and educational opportunities. But most of the kids I went to Kingdom Hall with in the 50-60 time period were allowed to go to college if they wanted to and participate in sports. Just about everyone in my peer group went to junior college at some point.

I'd love to hear your experiences in that regard to compare to mine.

Go for it, Farkel!

JV

64

"Dubs For Dummies"

by Farkel in

dear brothers and sisters in the worldwide brotherhood of jehovahs witnessestm,.

there has been much public interest in our beliefs lately, so we have prepared a very brief summary of our core beliefs in a new pamphlet which you may offer to interested persons.

hopefully, this pamphlet will generate enough interest with honest-hearted people and enable you to start many new bible studies.

Juan Viejo2

Farkel,

THANKS!!!

64

"Dubs For Dummies"

by Farkel in

dear brothers and sisters in the worldwide brotherhood of jehovahs witnessestm,.

there has been much public interest in our beliefs lately, so we have prepared a very brief summary of our core beliefs in a new pamphlet which you may offer to interested persons.

hopefully, this pamphlet will generate enough interest with honest-hearted people and enable you to start many new bible studies.

Juan Viejo2

Farkel - you have a PM

20

Your favorite meeting ever.

by 2tone in

id like everyone to share there most memorable meeting attendance they had.

for whatever reason.

id like to thank everyone for there comments who read my introduction post.

Juan Viejo2

The final talk on Sunday, August 3, 1958 of the International Convention at New York's Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds. It was my 15th birthday and my present was getting to go home after 8 miserably hot summer days of boring talks. I thought it would never end. I took forever for the final prayer. It must have been 95 degrees and not a dollop of shade the entire day. We were all wearing long-sleeved shirts and ties (it was the "public talk" so we all had to look our best). Brother Knorr gave the main talk - all about Adam and Eve sinning, Moses and the commandments, and Jesus dying for our ransom, and then Armageddon and the New World! Like we hadn't heard all that before a thousand times over (at least a hundred times during that same assembly!)

Then Fred Franz came out to give his final talk. Made not one lick of sense to me. So full of himself, I thought. He sounded almost like he had a German accent, but he was originally from Ohio I think. Then Brother Knorr again, if I remember right. I just wanted to get out of there as fast as I could. But at least that eight days of hell was over. I never went to another International Convention again.

44

Could you ever go back?

by MrFreeze in

jw
friends

not that i'm thinking about it, even for a brief nano-second, but something i have thought about is this, is there any way you could go back and not have people look at you with the stink eye?

after admitting your true feelings, how in the world could people ever look at you the same?

if you were in the situation of welcoming someone back, would you be able to look past the errors?

Juan Viejo2

I'd rather have root canals on all my teeth and then have them all pulled out while wide awake, before I went back.

Meetings are pretty much like dentist appointments, except the pain is in your head and your ass at the same time.

17

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

by Juan Viejo2 in

this message is important!

timing is critical!.

those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

Juan Viejo2

mamalove - watch for an announcement in the next few days.

Scott77 - I contacted both the ACLU and the Americans for Separation of Church and State. While they sympathized with the situation in Menlo Park, they explained that their focus is directed to cases where a government entity olr elected official is involved in either promoting or publicly supporting religious ideals or teachings. They do not involve themselves in cases where there is a disagreement between churches and their members. My contact at the ACLU simply told me that they should pursue the case in the civil courts and then find themselves another religion. "Why would anyone want to belong to a church that treated its own members so poorly?" was one comment.

I've been unsuccessful in contacting anyone directly involved in the Bonham, Tx case, but I did hear from an anonymous someone relatively close to the situation. His summation was that the brothers who fought the WT over the old Kingdom Hall "won the battle, but lost the war." Very few of them remain JWs and the rest ended up going to the new KH and asked for reinstatement. Again, I have no way to confirm any of that information, but I have heard similar stories in the past. Maybe Randy Watters or some of the other posters might have better and later information they can share.

The local brothers in Menlo Park who are the plaintiffs do not really want to get too much publicity about this case, so have not gone to the newspapers themselves. I was contacted by a local newspaper reporter about the case, but I've only shared those facts that are clearly public and available in court documents. My contacts continue to remain anonymous, even to me, and give me only sketchy information. Some of my contacts claim not to be JWs themselves, but only friends or distant relatives to the principal players. I have been told that the principals will not talk to me because I am an "apostate," which might complicate their situation with the Society's rules. It certainly complicates my involvement in the case because that makes everything I am getting "hearsay" or unconfirmed by any of the primary players.

The whole case, while interesting and rife with possibilities, has become very difficult to work with and frustrating. Some of the members of the local congregations have contacted me (again anonymously) and seem to be equally divided in their support for the plaintiffs. I think most of them really support the brothers personally, but are afraid to take a stand publicly for fear of being DF'd or otherwise punished themselves. While most agree that the CO, DO and others were totally out of line in their actions, being "too rough and pushy" and "drunk with their own power," they still feel that they did have the support of the Watchtower headquarters and therefore have the authority to do as they felt was necessary.

Last I heard, the plaintiffs are in line to be DFd, but I have not been able to verify that, nor do I know their current status. Apparently they are not attending any of the local Kingdom Halls because of fear of creating a scene. They apparently want to go (who knows why?), but don't want to expose themselves to possible abuse or threat of arrest.

Devil_Fish - are you out there? Check your PMs.

JV

16

Did Phillip fart? (or, was it the Queen?)

by Lion Cask in

the facial expressions tell it all.. (thank you, babayaga, for the tutorial).

.

Juan Viejo2

Yes, I know they must be fun to joke about.

They all look like they are dressed to go wage war in the Crimea, leading the 600 Light Cavalry - especially Anne.

Elizabeth looks like she's thinking, "Oh go ahead and have your fun on your horsies, swinging your swords, and acting brave. But leave me out of it. I want to go in and watch the telly."

25

another pic from 15 wt with questions

by booby in

.

Juan Viejo2

I imagine most angels would see men and women having sex, "bumpin' their uglies," and just go "oooooooooooh! ecccchhhh! gaggggg!" and then vomit all over the golden streets...

Stewie sees a ....

23

Let's study the Organization and dress up like Rutherford!

by Rank&FileGuy in

study the bible on family worship night?

nah!

let's study the organization and dress up like rutherford!

Juan Viejo2

I think I'm ready. How do I look?

Judge Juan Viejo Rutherford